Bertrand's View of Charity
Bertrand Russell when asked about giving his money to charity, laughed and said:
I'm afraid you've got it wrong. (We) are socialists. We don't pretend to be Christians.
Check out the full article here from anncoulter.com.
Another interesting tidbit: Dick Cheney -the "Darth Vader" of politicians- the man we were told to believe sent America to Iraq so he could get rich off of oil ... this Dick Cheney donated 77% of his income to charity. George W. Bush gives more than 10% of his income to charity.
The Biden's consistently give less than 1% of their income (0.15% to 0.3%). The Obama's usually give about 6% of their income to charity.
When are people going to realize the big government people don't care? They are hypocrites!
posted by Matthew Canonicus at
4:41 PM
19 Comments:
That's strange:
"Cheney bristled at questions yesterday about donating less than 1% of his income to charity in light of Bush’s call to substitute giving for government activism. “You can disagree with that,” he told reporters about his level of giving over the past 10 years. “I thought it was appropriate.”"
from here: http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Dick_Cheney_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm
Even if he did give alot to charity, it will never come close to absolving him for being partly responsible for a war that led to the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people; the kinds of people that charities are supposed to help.
Timothy,
May I ask why you call the Iraqui war murder?
Killing innocent people in a war is murder (especially if the war was based on lies). Killing 15 innocent people to get one insurgent was always acceptable collateral to America, and they didn't mind bombing civilian targets. This philosophy led to a grotesque amount of killings.
Q: If Barack Obama didn't bring the troops home from Iraq as soon as he became president, was he also a mass murderer? Or just partly responsible for it? Or what exactly?
Q: If killing innocent people in a war is murder, is Saddam Hussein's gassing of entire cities not murder if it happens during peace time?
Q: If a mass murderer runs the government, and a foreign power takes military action to remove the mass murderer ... are the leaders of the foreign power mass murderers also?
Q: How can a man who donates about 80% of his income to charity be credibly accused of starting a war against an totally innocent country to get rich off oil?
Q: If Barack Obama didn't bring the troops home from Iraq as soon as he became president, was he also a mass murderer? Or just partly responsible for it? Or what exactly?
A: Most of the killing by coalition troops ocurred in the first year of the war. I take your point though, Obama probably has very little qualms in killing innocent people to further America's interests, just as every other president has done. So far, however, he's proved far less reckless than Bush or Clinton ever was though.
Q: If killing innocent people in a war is murder, is Saddam Hussein's gassing of entire cities not murder if it happens during peace time?
A: Of course Hussein is a mass murderer, but why would you get rid of a mass murderer by killing even more of the countries people, completely destroying what little infastructure remained after the sanctions, and making the population even more miserable than it already was.
Q: If a mass murderer runs the government, and a foreign power takes military action to remove the mass murderer ... are the leaders of the foreign power mass murderers also?
Q: How can a man who donates about 80% of his income to charity be credibly accused of starting a war against an totally innocent country to get rich off oil?
A: I've yet to see a good source about that charity thing, the thing i quoted in the first comment seems to counteract it. Or what charities he is supposedly sending a ton of money. I never claimed he went to war to get rich off oil, I personally dont have a theory why the Bush administration went to war at all, as all of their claimed reasons are just lies or completely incomprehensible (WMDs, humanitarian reasons, defeating terrorism, etc.). I judge him not for his intentions, which I really don't know anything about because there doesnt seem to be any rational explanation, but the practical effects of his decisions; which were catastrophic.
Sorry missed this one:
Q: If a mass murderer runs the government, and a foreign power takes military action to remove the mass murderer ... are the leaders of the foreign power mass murderers also?
A: It depends on what happens to the population of the Government with a mass murderer. If the foreign power succeeds in removing the mass murderer, install a benevolent Government, and achieve stability, then you could say the foreign power did an amazing thing for the population. If there is a bloody war, and slightly less people were killed than under peacetime with the mass murderer, you could say that the foreign power is "the lesser of two evils", but still evil. If the bloody war results in hundreds of thousands of people dying, a complete obliteration of infastructure, education, and health-care standards, the installation of a corrupt Government who inspire popular resistance, and the removal of all social stability resulting in guerilla warfare among the three ethnic groups then yes, the foreign power are mass murderers who deserve no more respect or praise than did Hussein.
Timothy,
Can you tell me of one war in which innocent people didn't die?
I don't think it was ever proven that the war was knowingly based upon a lie. Maybe you thought we were more moral when we supported Saddam Huesein? Or were we more moral to allow him to remain in somewhat of a contained position by the U.N. while his people went without?
War is ugly and there is no such thing as a 'porportionate war'. It is difficult to count the cost of it before going in and I don't think we did everything correctly or that President Bush was without fault but I think we are leaving Iraq better off than it was under Saddam and I also believe that our troops under President Bush have kept us safe at home. We'll see how Mr. Obama does but he doesn't seem to be off to a strong start. He thinks he can change the reality of terror by using different language. I think he is in denial and isn't sure who's side he's on.
Hi Lavendar,
Of course civilians have always died in wars, but since WW1 most of the casaulties in wars have become civilians and not the military. US/Israel will destroy an apartment complex full of innocent people in order to get one enemy combatant, just as terrorists will blow up a cafe just to prove a point.
It was known that the war was based on a lie. All of the WMD stuff was fabricated, and many trust-worthy sources have come out saying there was no credible evidence of anything over there. Even the government itself had to admit this.
The whole thing is just disgusting. America sold them alot of arms in the Iran/Iraq war (Hussein wasnt such a bad guy then), then Clinton killed a million people (half of them children) through sanctions, and now Bush has killed hundreds of thousands directly with a war. If America really cared about the humanitarian situation of the Iraqi people, they would not have gone to bed with Hussein when he was convenient, and then proceed to kill close to 2 million of its people.
It is difficult to count the cost of wars before going in, but it was very clear to most people what was going to happen if America invaded. Cheney (before becoming VP), Bush I, colin powell, a ton of analysts and experts of the region all concluded that if you invade Iraq it's going to be a very long and costly (in both lives and money) war. The administration just fed this "we will be greeted as liberators" crap and the media/congress bought it.
What do you mean by "change the reality of terror by using different language. I think he is in denial and isn't sure who's side he's on"?
Timothy,
You forget that one of the favorite tactics used by Islamic fascist is to hide weapons and fighters in among their own women and children. They also use their children for bombs. They live within a culture of death and they are spreading their death all over the world. Do not try to make me feel sorry for such people or to feel guilt for what my country has done in retaliation. The men and women who risk life and limb to protect our country are not the murderers. Please clear your head and take a closer look.
You seem to see the world with a few villians that all the evil can be conveniently blamed upon. George Bush and Cheney have been abused by the left leaning media in this country for over eight years now. They seem to be the ones from whom you get most of your information and the 'correct' opinion from wich to digest it. I'd like to ask you to think independently from all of that and maybe instead, you might begin to see Bush and Cheney as mere men with strengths and foibles, caught up in the moment they were destined to live, doing the best they could and also making some mistakes but certainly, they are not murderers. There are many issues that I disagreed with Bush about but I never doubted him as an honorable man and I am grateful to him for keeping us free from another attack like 9/11 which took out much more than a restarant.
I know people who were in Iraq and their descriptions are very different from what NBC, CBS, spew out every day. These people are those who genuinely love America so I will choose to believe them over a media filled with self loathing and hatred for America and I'm not going to listen to a world that does the same despite all that America has done for them.
I believe Obama may be the first American leader to also hate America. His first phone call in office was to Hamas and it is strange how many people in that part of the world think he is Muslim. We're also sending money to help rebuild the Gaza. He's very concerned about the rights of those who plotted to kill 2,000 Americans. He is so sensitive to them that he is dropping the un-p.c. language of the Bush administration like enemy combatant. He is in denial and thinks he can change reality by using the correct words. Yet, when it comes to our old allies, such as the UK, he thinks nothing of insulting them with cheap, thoughtless gifts, and returning a bust of Winston Churchill that had been presented to a previous administration. Hugo Chavez loves him and I have to say, that I do see a resemblance between them.
The forces are gathering to test this man and if he proves to have the same mettle as George Bush then I will be happy even though I despise everything he stands for because I fear for my country. It is popular to hate America and a self-loathing liberal president will be a weak target. I hope I am wrong about him but I think there may be a lot of people wishing for a return of George Bush.
Do you believe in miracles?
Lavendar,
you said: "You forget that one of the favorite tactics used by Islamic fascist is to hide weapons and fighters in among their own women and children."
This happens less often than the western media or western Governments would lead you to believe. Even so, If a bunch of guys have held up a bank and taken all of these hostages, should the police go in and shoot up everybody?
you said: "They live within a culture of death and they are spreading their death all over the world. Do not try to make me feel sorry for such people or to feel guilt for what my country has done in retaliation."
Terrorists, who are an extremely small percentage of people over there. The hundreds of thousand innocent people who were killed were just like you and me, they had families, friends, and a desire to live their lives.
you said: "You seem to see the world with a few villians that all the evil can be conveniently blamed upon."
No no no not true at all! I'm not claiming that Hamas, or Al-Qaeda, or terrorists are "good", and that the only real evil comes from America. I'm saying they are as evil as each other, it's just the American Government has access to far more bombs and hence they are more dangerous.
You said: "They seem to be the ones from whom you get most of your information"
What information have I talked about other than the fact people are dying? I'm not resorting to some secret conspiracy to explain why Bush is a murderer (e.g. 9/11 truthers), it's a plain fact how many have died over there as a result of the war. The burden of proof is on you to explain how all that death is somehow not his fault and actually ok.
I'm sorry to say but the last time I checked Congress has to declare war. The President cannot declare war. Therefore, both Republicans and Democrates played a hand in the war we are now in. PERIOD. They were allowed to research before the vote that is why we have three branches of government. So, not one person can dictate in our Country. The blame needs to be spread accordingly. If Congress chose to trust all of the President's information then they are held responsible too they can't say "Oh, we were fooled." Bullshit, they are paid too much and to intelligent to be 'fooled'"
It is just a good excuse since things aren't going they way the American public wants it to go.
As for war, it sucks.
And fighting has changed we all know it. The United States is not nor should it hang it's troops out to die because we all know that unfortunately the Iraqi citizens were placed in danger by it's own government.
It really is easy to criticize when your Country is never a target.
Lucy,
Congress officially declared war, yes, but it was the executive who planned and carried out the tactics in the war. Most of the Congress democrats voted for it because they felt they'd be politically roast if they didnt, what with all the xenophobia and questioning each others patriotism that was going around.
Australia is a target, and mostly because our old PM supported America's middle eastern wars and sent a token number of troops. The stupid war made us a big target. There's a consensus in scholarship that the Iraq war strengthened the terrorists anyway, so even if we were to not give a damn about poor innocent Iraqi's it did not help with western security.
Timothy,
I feel that I owe you nothing. In fact, I'm very insulted that you call my country a murderer. I do not pretend to know all about Australia's business and I do not pass judgement upon you or your country. In polite conversation I expect the same. If you think my country is or has been involved in illegal activity then I think you should take it up with your countries authorities and leave any action up to them.
I have no problem with you personally but I love my country and I'm sick of these kinds accusations. I've no problem with you disagreeing with the war or thinking it wrong headed but please, don't call us murderers.
Lucy,
If there is anything that colors the left it is cynicism. This line of 'thinking' is a cynical attempt to paint Bush with the same brush as Sadaam. I've heard it before and it is just sticky, nasty, stuff.
You are very right about the congress they were all on board while they thought the nation was angry and ready for war but when we begin to lose our stomach for it, (and that is the way it is with war) they tried to run the other way.
I don't know about you but I am so sick of people who believe in nothing and live only to fulfill their own empty desires. Why do so many of them end up as politicians?
Lavendar,
I didn't mean to offend you. When I say murderers I don't mean the American people at all. I'm not anti-american, I view the American population as a whole the same as my own country or other countries. What i'm criticising is the Government, and I think every citizen of a country should be able to view themselves as independent of the actions of the Government. Even the soldiers who are personally dropping the bombs are just following orders. My problem is with the executive branch of the Government, the people at the top of the military hierarchy, and to a lesser extent the legislative branch.
Again, I really didn't mean to cause offense, but despite the fact i'm from Australia I think I can pass judgements on the actions of any Government as much as my own.
Timothy,
Language matters and murder is not the word that fits here. Lots of us make judgements but that doesn't mean we have the information to make correct judgements. Reading about a country is not the same as living in it and I may call my president all kinds of names in a family squabble but it doesn't set well with me to hear someone outside call them names.
I'm willing to let it go.
Lavendar,
Morality transcends borders. An outside perspective is sometimes the best one. We make value judgements on the leaders of other countries such as Iraq all the time, and perhaps that makes some of the people inside that country uncomfortable, but does that make the analysis any less valid?
You're right that we never know what a country is exactly like until we've lived there, but i'm not talking about subjective things such as existential despair in the hearts of the Iraqis, or whether it is safer now to walk down the street, or if the water tastes better after the invasion. All i'm discussing is death tolls (rough estimates of which cannot be denied).
Timothy,
The death toll rises daily with and without war. I don't think death is ever anything to be glad about but it is a part of our struggle. War generally brings that struggle into sharper relief but I think Americans have been lulled to sleep during this war with reports of death tolls only and no reporting. News in America today, is more like a partisian arguement from one side or the other and very few objective facts. What I know of the war comes from what I am told by people who were there. Since they were making a sacrifice for me, I choose to believe them and remain on their side. I have absolutely no reason to believe left's political arguement and actually, no trust of them. I also am not so trusting of Repubs as I once was as it seems many of them have no backbone and no convictions. We are living in an unusual time. All of the boundaries are shifting.
In times of war, I always side with my country. It would have to be a very despicable war indeed for me to speak against my country to an outsider. Nothing personal. It is just doing what I believe is right.
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